Opinions on Dex 6...

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Originally Posted by RegorHtims

Is there a point where you should not change the tranny fluid because it causes slips and can hurt the tranny? I thought I read that somewhere. Just wondering because I have around 93k miles and I don't know if its ever been done. Should I change or no?

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Drop the pan and put new fluid and filter in, wash the pan out good and make sure it's 100% dry before putting it back, replace the gasket if necessary.

With this high mileage issue, it's the tranny FLUSH that you want to avoid. It uses high pressure to blast away gunk and varnish that can really destroy an older transmission, or one that hasnt been taken care of.

Imo, it's never bad to put fresh fluid in, it's responsible for lubrication and cooling just as engine oil is, and just like engine oil, it loses it's ability to lubricate and cool efficiently over time... just as it's been stated earlier in this thread, your transmission is older, might have crappy old fluid in it to begin with, stick with the Dex 3 to be safe.

If the fluid is really dark and smells burnt, probably wanna get it looked at, cause likely damage has already been done.

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Originally Posted by RegorHtims

Is there a point where you should not change the tranny fluid because it causes slips and can hurt the tranny? I thought I read that somewhere. Just wondering because I have around 93k miles and I don't know if its ever been done. Should I change or no?

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I took one of my work trucks in to the dealerhsip to have the trans fluid changed, they told me the same thing. But they said after 200k miles they tend to leave it alone.

Agree with other guys, that at 93K you should still replace the fluid but not flush. Only thing that I could add is to leave the pan off for a relatively long time, maybe an hour. That way, I think the converter level will drain all the way down to the snout. Very little old fluid remains.

i had mine off for an hour.

Nothing really came out after the first 5 minutes of the pan being off.

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Originally Posted by That Canadian Guy

i had mine off for an hour.

Nothing really came out after the first 5 minutes of the pan being off.

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i did the same thing. did my first one at 50k, and i will not be waiting that long for the next one. fluid was dark dark red. i'm planning on doing mine again in about a year and add a shift kit. who knows, i may do it sooner...

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Originally Posted by FriboRage

With this high mileage issue, it's the tranny FLUSH that you want to avoid. It uses high pressure to blast away gunk and varnish that can really destroy an older transmission, or one that hasnt been taken care of.

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last time i had a trans flush all they do is hook up a tank to your transmission cooling lines,(from the radiator) the only pressure is coming from your trans pump, so the transmission pumps out the old and sucks in the new fluid.

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Originally Posted by moddman

"GM states about Dex 6, they say it is completely backwards compatible."
Enough said......

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I stand corrected.........I found this on a gm forum which was explained it very simple about Dex 6....."Dex VI's different additives actually attack the rubber in the older transmissions and hardens the rubber prematurely over time.":(

Eventually they won't make Dex III anymore, or so I've read.

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Originally Posted by torq455

Eventually they won't make Dex III anymore, or so I've read.

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They shouldn't be making Dexron III right now at all. I believe all licenses to make Dexron III fluid expired the end of 2006? Something like that.

And even any fluid made after that date is not suppose to use the Dexron III label. Some may say Dexron/Mercon because if the fluid meets the latest Mercon spec, it also meets the older outdated Dexron III spec. So that is where they get around that one. But ultimately, GM owns and licenses the use of the name Dexron III and no fluid made after 2006 is supposed to have that label.

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Originally Posted by Zef_66

They shouldn't be making Dexron III right now at all. I believe all licenses to make Dexron III fluid expired the end of 2006? Something like that.

And even any fluid made after that date is not suppose to use the Dexron III label. Some may say Dexron/Mercon because if the fluid meets the latest Mercon spec, it also meets the older outdated Dexron III spec. So that is where they get around that one. But ultimately, GM owns and licenses the use of the name Dexron III and no fluid made after 2006 is supposed to have that label.

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There must be a huge stockpile somewhere then. We use Dex3 on any vehicle older than 2005 because 05/06+ is where the transition lies. We go thru more Dex3 in a week than we do Dex6 and our supplier hasn't said anything about it going away.

I think it may fade out, but considering most cars up to 04 still say to use Dex3 it'll be around for a while still.

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Originally Posted by TLSheff

There must be a huge stockpile somewhere then. We use Dex3 on any vehicle older than 2005 because 05/06+ is where the transition lies. We go thru more Dex3 in a week than we do Dex6 and our supplier hasn't said anything about it going away.

I think it may fade out, but considering most cars up to 04 still say to use Dex3 it'll be around for a while still.

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Do your customers know that you are servicing their cars against GM recommendations?

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Originally Posted by Zef_66

Do your customers know that you are servicing their cars against GM recommendations?

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:th_laugh-pointup: Wut?

I work parts at a GM Dealership. The change over to DexVI is around 04-06+ for most GM vehicles... changes depending. I know because we have bulletins that show which vehicle gets what. Older cars such as 97-03 GPs for instance are not recommended to use DexVI because the additives can cause premature wear on them and or seals to break. That is why they still make DexIII and supply it all over the country if not the world. Its a completely different design in transmission fluid.

That's like saying the newest transfer case fluid will work in all transfer cases, or axle fluid is the same between all differentials. Try it... let me know how it works out for you.

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Originally Posted by TLSheff

:th_laugh-pointup: Wut?

I work parts at a GM Dealership. The change over to DexVI is around 04-06+ for most GM vehicles... changes depending. I know because we have bulletins that show which vehicle gets what. Older cars such as 97-03 GPs for instance are not recommended to use DexVI because the additives can cause premature wear on them and or seals to break. That is why they still make DexIII and supply it all over the country if not the world. Its a completely different design in transmission fluid.

That's like saying the newest transfer case fluid will work in all transfer cases, or axle fluid is the same between all differentials. Try it... let me know how it works out for you.

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Now, I know I'm not a GM service tech, and not properly trained on how to read Technical Service Bulletins (TSB), but from what I have read, GM recommends Dexron VI fluid in all transmission that used any kind of Dexron fluid at all:

Info taken from: http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/he..._Dexron_VI.pdf

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Attention: DEXRON®-VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is the only approved fluid for warranty repairs for General Motors transmissions/transaxles requiring DEXRON®-III and/or prior DEXRON® transmission fluids.

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Some of our customers and/or General Motors dealerships/Saturn Retailers may have some concerns with DEXRON®-VI and DEXRON®-III Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) and transmission warranty claims. DEXRON®-VI is the only approved fluid for warranty repairs for General Motors transmissions/transaxles requiring DEXRON®-III and/or prior DEXRON®

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DEXRON®-VI can be used in any proportion in past model vehicles equipped with an automatic transmission/transaxle in place of DEXRON®-III (i.e. topping off the fluid in the event of a repair or fluid change). DEXRON®-VI is also compatible with any former version of DEXRON® for use in automatic transmissions/transaxles.

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General Motors Powertrain has upgraded to DEXRON®-VI ATF with the start of 2006 vehicle production.
Current and prior automatic transmission models that had used DEXRON®-III must now only use DEXRON®-VI.
All 2006 and future model transmissions that use DEXRON®-VI are to be serviced ONLY with DEXRON®-VI fluid.

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So am I wrong and just don't know how to read these?

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Originally Posted by Zef_66

So am I wrong and just don't know how to read these?

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No, you read it right. I won't argue that, I will let you know the bulletin was updated on April 7, 2011. #04-07-30-037E is the new number, compared quickly everything looks to be the exact same info.

Like I said, try it. Let me know how it works. I've seen 100,000 mile trannys get serviced and flushed and fail shortly after, I did a pan drop about 12k miles and used Dex6 on my PERSONAL GTP and its ok at the moment, but it has been serviced regularly too.

If its any conciliation to you, consider I also have a bulletin floating on this forum, ask Bill he's seen it. It states that the M90s can be serviced with Mobil1 5x30 synthetic oil instead of the GM Supercharger fluid. Its old, been revised, still current in its standing by GM, but would you do it to yours??? We've got several threads arguing the pros/cons of possibilities of doing this, nobody has stepped up to it tho, I don't think anyways.

Just food for thought :th_thumbsup-wink:

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Originally Posted by TLSheff

No, you read it right. I won't argue that, I will let you know the bulletin was updated on April 7, 2011. #04-07-30-037E is the new number, compared quickly everything looks to be the exact same info.

Like I said, try it. Let me know how it works. I've seen 100,000 mile trannys get serviced and flushed and fail shortly after, I did a pan drop about 12k miles and used Dex6 on my PERSONAL GTP and its ok at the moment, but it has been serviced regularly too.

If its any conciliation to you, consider I also have a bulletin floating on this forum, ask Bill he's seen it. It states that the M90s can be serviced with Mobil1 5x30 synthetic oil instead of the GM Supercharger fluid. Its old, been revised, still current in its standing by GM, but would you do it to yours??? We've got several threads arguing the pros/cons of possibilities of doing this, nobody has stepped up to it tho, I don't think anyways.

Just food for thought :th_thumbsup-wink:

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So I still go back to my original point. Do you tell your customers "This is what GM recommends, but this is what our dealership does just because we feel we know better?"

When I asked that the first time, you laughed and said that Dexron VI is not recommended four 97-03 GPs. But from I read, straight from GM, it is recommended. So what's the deal. Did you just not know what GM recommends and thought you would post anyhow? Not to mention you said you have bulletins that show what cars get what fluid. Post them up if you have them.

If not, please don't post about it. If you don't know what you are talking about, just don't post. Because posting bad information on a forum where someone who doesn't know any better could take it for gold because "you work parts at a GM dealership" could be very detrimental.

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Originally Posted by Zef_66

So I still go back to my original point. Do you tell your customers "This is what GM recommends, but this is what our dealership does just because we feel we know better?"

When I asked that the first time, you laughed and said that Dexron VI is not recommended four 97-03 GPs. But from I read, straight from GM, it is recommended. So what's the deal. Did you just not know what GM recommends and thought you would post anyhow? Not to mention you said you have bulletins that show what cars get what fluid. Post them up if you have them.

If not, please don't post about it. If you don't know what you are talking about, just don't post. Because posting bad information on a forum where someone who doesn't know any better could take it for gold because "you work parts at a GM dealership" could be very detrimental.

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Any time I say that I work at a dealership, its because I looked up the information. You have a bulletin, I agreed on what it says. It is right, but my catalog, specifically, the program given to parts and service by GM, and updated DAILY by GM says what fluids to use, part number, capacities, etc... It is DIFFERENT, still recommends the DexIII which is why I said that it won't be going away. The original statement by you. Unfortunately I cannot post the information because I don't feel like making tons of screenshots just to prove a point.

You have to argue and it reads like your all butthurt over this. Do what you want, say what you want, free country, its your right. But I still stand by the fact that most "MOST" people on this forum will still be rocking an original transmission, filled with original DexIII fluid and telling them to flush it out and fill up with DexVI because GM says so, will likely result in future failure when the internals are not really designed to handle the additives that come in it. Which is why 90% of the people on this forum will agree, stay with DexIII in these trannys. Infact call over to TEP or Tim King and ask what fluid they recommend. They build them for hard driving and/or racing. See what they say.

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Originally Posted by TLSheff

Any time I say that I work at a dealership, its because I looked up the information. You have a bulletin, I agreed on what it says. It is right, but my catalog, specifically, the program given to parts and service by GM, and updated DAILY by GM says what fluids to use, part number, capacities, etc... It is DIFFERENT, still recommends the DexIII which is why I said that it won't be going away. The original statement by you. Unfortunately I cannot post the information because I don't feel like making tons of screenshots just to prove a point.

You have to argue and it reads like your all butthurt over this. Do what you want, say what you want, free country, its your right. But I still stand by the fact that most "MOST" people on this forum will still be rocking an original transmission, filled with original DexIII fluid and telling them to flush it out and fill up with DexVI because GM says so, will likely result in future failure when the internals are not really designed to handle the additives that come in it. Which is why 90% of the people on this forum will agree, stay with DexIII in these trannys. Infact call over to TEP or Tim King and ask what fluid they recommend. They build them for hard driving and/or racing. See what they say.

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The bulletin I published has been around and circulated on many sites by many people. It is commonly known. Why would it be different than your 'dealer only' computer system? Maybe that is something as a GM tech that you should investigate instead of just assuming one way or another. I would bet that the system just wasn't updated with the newer information for the older cars because of how cumbersome it would be to do so.

But I have been around this forum, and many others long enough to know what most people run and recommend. And most do not recommend to use the old, outdated Dexron III fluid. Most people, including on this very forum, have switched over to the new, improved, and overall completely better Dexron VI fluid. I have seen no failures from someone switching over to Dexron VI fluid at all. In fact, I have been running it in my 280k mile original transmission for years now and probably have 120k miles and several changes with Dex VI. I have no leaks, no failures, no issues whatsoever. None. If it were the case that switching over to Dexron VI fluid was causing issues, it would be all over the internet and people would be screaming bloody murder that GM is recommending something that ruined their transmission. There would be class action lawsuits and a huge uproar.

But fact of the matter is, there is none of that. Dexron VI fluid has been widely accepted by most people that use it. Yes, there are a few hard core racers that need to use a different fluid because of the high stress and high RPMs that they subject their transmission to. But for most people and most cars out there, Dexron VI is the recommended fluid and that which will work the best for them, with no issues in the long run.

And I do know that GM has publicly released exactly what is in that bulletin. That all makes and models that used any previous mix of Dexron fluid should now be using Dexron VI.

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Originally Posted by Zef_66

And I do know that GM has publicly released exactly what is in that bulletin. That all makes and models that used any previous mix of Dexron fluid should now be using Dexron VI.

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So, if all makes that use DexIII should now be using DexronVI... why is it still being made and sold???

IF it is perfectly acceptable, recommended even, to replace the old fluid, which is half the price, why wouldn't it be pulled off the shelf as an outdated design. This would put more money to all the businesses, as you would have to pay the extra money, and it is a better fluid so it shouldn't have to compete with the outdated design.

GM discontinues parts all the time, without warning or much reason. Yet, this old fluid that shouldn't even be used is still available for sale and order.

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Originally Posted by TLSheff

So, if all makes that use DexIII should now be using DexronVI... why is it still being made and sold???

IF it is perfectly acceptable, recommended even, to replace the old fluid, which is half the price, why wouldn't it be pulled off the shelf as an outdated design. This would put more money to all the businesses, as you would have to pay the extra money, and it is a better fluid so it shouldn't have to compete with the outdated design.

GM discontinues parts all the time, without warning or much reason. Yet, this old fluid that shouldn't even be used is still available for sale and order.

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Dexron III approved fluid isn't made anymore. GM retired the licensing for Dexron III fluid at the end of 2006 I believe. Not sure if GM still makes their own, but according to the bulletin from GM that I posted, the part numbers were being replaced.

But what does happen is companies that have made Dexron III approved fluid for years don't stop producing it because it also meets other specs like Mercon for Ford. So they can change the wording a little bit and advertise it as Mercon/Dex fluid and on the back will say "meets the requirements of" or "for use where Dexron III is specified" and kinda sidestep the issue. But you work for GM, look into it. The license for Dexron III fluid expired the end of 2006 and no more Dexron III approved fluid was to be made after that.

Bringing this back from the dead.... Does anyone have a specific brand they use? I used Castrol Dex6 last time and less than 20k on the fluid its black. I want to change it out next week, just dont know what to get.