4T65E Hard Shift-Solution

**gdcastro** · 09-13-2010

Just ordered the Transgo shift-kit and 1-2, 2-3 GM springs. Im having them shipped here to the Philippines, from San Leandro.

Hopefully i receive them within the week, so that I can have the local Tranny mechanic install them, together with the installation of 2 shift solenoids, and a TCC solenoid.

Wish me luck.

**gdcastro** · 10-08-2010

Just installed the Transgo Shiftkit and new 2-3 spring for the 1-2 Accu.....very happy with the performance.

**jbamonte** · 10-09-2010

Originally Posted by gdcastro

Just installed the Transgo Shiftkit and new 2-3 spring for the 1-2 Accu.....very happy with the performance.

Glad to hear that it worked out well for you. As you probably have read previously, I did not use the Transgo shift kit but the shims from ZZ Performance. I think changing the springs is the correct way to go and I may do the transgo shift kit down the road but going on 15,000 miles since the the ZZ Performance shims and the (2) 18,000 GVW coolers in the grill doing all the tranny cooling and zero hard shift issues! I am convinced that the shift kit and coolers are the way to go if the only issue with the 4T65E is the hard shift issue. I really wonder how many people have been conned into replacing the solenoids and or having the tranny rebuilt because of a hard shift issue for several hundred and/or thousands of dollars!

The best part about the shift kit and cooler (S) is that they not only solve the hard shift problem but eliminating slippage between shifts and dramatically lowering the operating temperature of the tranny fluid, BOTH, drastically increase the longevity of the 4T65E tranny!!!

**gdcastro** · 10-09-2010

i agree sir. Even though some tag the shiftkit as a "band-aid" solution, you yourself can personally attest that going 15,000 miles without any issues hardly qualifies as a mere band-aid solution. Its more like a permanent fix

I was hesitant to only replace just one 2-3 spring when i havent opened the accumulator yet, but after seeing the 2 top springs, it was very evident that the 1-2 was more "soft" and thinner than the stock 2-3 spring on the 2-3 chamber. So i went ahead and replaced the 1-2 spring, thus making both top springs on the 1-2 and stock 2-3 identical in firmness and thickness. So for anyone who wants to replace the top springs, just one new 2-3 ac delco spring is enough.

The transgo bottom springs were also very easy to install since the transgo shift kit cam with a very clear visual diagram on the installation of the 2 long shims and 1 short shim (for the 2-3 chamber's top spring). All the springs from transgo are color-coded, making it virtually error free in following the instructions. It also came with other parts for the valve body, which i did not use anymore since i was not opening the valve body anyway.

Putting back the aluminum tubes into the accumulator and servo was also easy. You just need to ensure that its all the way in.

I used Dexton VI, about 8 bottles.

It took us about 2 hours....not rushing the process. We went to a gas station and rented their hydraulic lifter and just gave the gas station the equivalent of USD12.00 in our local currency in the Philippines for the use of the lifter. It was worth the cost since we didnt have to liedown under the van while working. We were also not showered with fluid. haha.

I have not quite decided on the coolers though. I have to think it over because the line from the tranny in a chevy venture is a bit long. The aluminum part that rests under the radiator lining stretches about 36 inches from the point where it is connected to a rubber hose. So i still do not know where i should i cut the line.....is it at the hose connector part, or CUT the aluminum part just under the radiator base? Your thoughts on this sir?

Again, thank you for your post. It was very helpful. I firmly believe that we wont be experiencing the hardshift anymore, and i will be at ease, knowing that the clutch wont get burnt because of high pressure.

By the way, I also asked the gas station to blow compressed air into the condenser and radiator for 20 minutes to remove dust and debris.....then ran high-pressure water for 15 minutes....i must say, it was VERY VERY helpful because my operating temp for the chevy venture is good now. not more problems. we found that it was clogged, especially the space between the radiator and condensor....

**gdcastro** · 10-09-2010

i was actually supposed to have the TCC solenoid, two shift solenoids and the PCS replaced here in the Philippines because a mechanic assured me that he can take down the tranny in 10hours from a chevy venture for USD80.00.

Then when we were about to go with it, he started to work on it, and realized he needed to remove the whole cross member of the van, which will take 2 days, so he told me he could not do it. haha. So i asked the GM shop for the cost of the labor for the solenoids....its about USD1200.00.....so....enter transgo.

**jbamonte** · 10-10-2010

The ZZ performance shift kit only includes shims, no springs, and I installed the 1/2 inch shim on the 1-2 accumulator springs as recommended in the instructions and a 1/2 inch shim on the 2-3 accumulator spring which was not recommended by ZZ performance. The instructions called for a 3/4 inch shim on the 2-3 accumulator spring. I may change the shims in the accumulator when I change the tranny fluid in the spring of 2011 since my shim setup has only increased the shift firmness slightly and I would like a more positive shift feel. I may change the shim on the 1-2 accumulator spring to 3/4 inch and the shim in the 2-3 accumulator to a 3/4 inch shim at that time to see the difference the change makes. If I am not satisfied after the change, I probably will just go ahead and buy the transgo shift kit and make the shim and spring change at the following fluid change.

As for the cooler, I cut the aluminum lines where it runs along the base of the radiator just about in the middle of the radiator. I capped the aluminum tranny lines running to the radiator and clamped the rubber hoses to the cooler on the lines back to the transmission. It really was quite easy. I assume that you run the vans A/C almost all the time in the Phillipines since it is very hot there which you would need to do if you run in traffic much since you need the A/C fans to run to have a constant source of air over the cooler (S) to cool the fluid in traffic. This issue is not a problem if you run in free air most of the time on the highway or are constantly moving. Where I am in the Northern US, it is cool enough outside for 2/3's of the year, I do not need the fans running in traffic, only in the summer. Hope that this helps.

**gdcastro** · 10-10-2010

thanks for the info on the cooler installation. I will definitely consider it.

For the transgo, i just want to say that the shift is very smooth. Its for daily driving. You can barely feel the shift. It shifts a lot better now, even from 4-2 or from 3-1 downshift.

**Bronco Boy** · 05-13-2011

Bit of an old thread, but it deserves a bump.

I got the P1811 code a few months back, and was aware of the the shift kit band-aid. My 1-2 shifts were brutally mushy, but my buddy just installed a TransGo kit for me a few hours ago, and the 1-2 shift is quick and smooth. 2-3 feels a tad crisper than the 1-2, and when I get on it, they all feel quick and crisp. The 3-2 shift would really bang when it shifted before, but now it is nice and smooth, even at higher speeds. Bonus!

Here is my write-up.

I still want to change the PCS, but at least I've bought myself some time and can keep the damage to a minimum. I give this "mod" two thumbs up.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned..... I still hear the slight wine of the pump. I'm guessing this will remain until the PCS is replaced? Will further damage occur to the PCS or other parts by running this way?

**jhs3eva** · 05-14-2011

bronco boy - at certain times a little pump whine is probably normal. Its just the sound of relatively high pump pressure and sometimes its supposed to be high, such as getting rolling from a stop, esp if on a grade or something. Of course, if you have the louder, persistent whine then it likely just means that the P1811 is still in memory.

Anyway, I suppose its past time for me to post an update since my "saga" has not ended.

I am about 1yr & 18K miles past my shift kit install and the shifting is still good and I don't get the P1811s anymore.

However, about 6 mos & 10K miles after the shift kit my trans started dropping in & out of TCC lockup. In the 40-60mph speed range it was actually pretty bad - fairly strong & hard bucking in & out. At highway speeds it would "flutter" in & out but smoothly. The only way to tell then was to watch the tach.

I blew about $130 having a local trans shop check it out - not once but twice. I got the typical blank stare shrug and the quote for a reman transmission. Yippee. Thanks guys. "So why is it dropping in and out of lockup?" Blank stare / shrug. (All the tech would say is he thinks the TCC clutch is gone. But he didn't know).

I hate this transmission. At this shop I took it to the head trans tech said he's given up on trying to fix them. He just orders these remans with warranty instead - then its someone else's problem except when he gets stuck with the labor.

Anyway, this could be a PCS problem. But the 4T65Es also have this other chronic problem which is the valve body bore for the TCC PWM solenoid wearing. Once it does it can't hold the fluid pressure & you get this inability of the trans to stay in lockup. Without a real diagnosis all I can do guess so I've spent some time wondering whether the shift kit "fix" didn't go on to exacerbate the TCC bore wear problem. I.e. if the shift kit keeps the line pressures up it makes it more likely that the valve body bore would leak.

But that's not exactly the end up my guessing (holy cow, what I wouldn't do for competent trans shop that I could trust...). Before I ever did the shift kit I had dropped the pan/filter & I refilled with Valvoline MaxLife. I thought the shifting & 1811 problems got worse. So next I dropped the pan, installed the kit & went with Dex VI. The 1811 problem was gone, but then I later ended up with the TCC problem.

So, I pulled the pan again. I took the accumulator down again. I pulled out the smaller center springs that came with the transgo kit and left in only the spacers and large Transgo springs. (Those match the OEM's in size, but are stiffer/stronger). Then this time I refilled with your standard old Dex/Merc fluid that still meets Dex III specs (recall that mine's an '00 when Dex III was the standard. Don't do this on a GM from about '06 on that requires Dex VI).

On that last pan drop I also finally installed a drain plug (dope slap to every engineering/design crew that doesn't give you a transmission drain!!). About 5k later I drained pan & refilled with Dex/Merc again. So now I have tiny bits of MaxLife; a bit of Dex VI; and maybe 60-70% Dex/Merc.

Ever since that time the TCC problem is still there - but its not nearly as bad now. It doesn't get funky as frequently. Nor is is nearly as harsh as it was before.

So right now I've got a confused mess. The van is still a daily driver & functions ok - but its not right. There's some possibility that replacing my EPC solenoid would fix it all - but I'd have to spend a bunch of $$ to find out since I can't get a real diagnosis. There's some possibility that the fluids I used made small problems much bigger. There's some possibility that the full Trango kit (springs & all) may keep the line pressures too high & cause problems elsewhere.

So that's an update - full of more questions rather than answers but perhaps my own experiences can help out you others struggling with this absolute engineering nightmare of a transmission.

Did I mention that I hate this transmission?

**jbamonte** · 05-14-2011

Just a quick update-I still have the ZZ performance Shims in the accumulator and have not installed the transgo kit that I purchased a few months ago. I am waiting for my next scheduled trans fluid change to install the transgo shift kit although everything has been perfect now for about 1.5 years-no hard shifting, no pump whine-nothing. I do have though the 2 double stack 18,000 GVW Long coolers that do ALL the transmission fluid cooling for the trans-the lines run outside of the radiator cooling system. I did just change both front drive shafts and did see the condition of the fluid after 10,000 miles in the trans casing when I removed the drive shafts and it looked almost new from its color. Every 4T65E should have at least a big tranny cooler either in conjunction with the GM cooling lines or run outside of the radiator like I have mine with 2 18,000 GVW coolers! People who say that you do not need tranny coolers do not know what they are talking about. Trans coolers on any transmission greatly increase the longevity of the transmission. I have been running coolers for over 25 years on all types of cars an have NEVER had a transmission issue (I did NOT orginally have one on the 4t65E until the hard shift issue developed-dope!) or failure!

**skernan** · 06-05-2011

I just finished reading all four pages of this thread and let me say I am grateful for the information.

I bought a 2000 Grand Prix last week for a good price. The car had one owner and ran really good on my test drive. Of course, the test drive didn't last 30-40 minutes where the tranny had a chance to warm up. On the third day of driving to work (a 50 min commute) I heard the whine and felt the hard shifts once I got off the interstate. I was a bit worried until i signed up to this forum and found this thread (only took an hour or so to find).

After reading the thread, I have a few questions.
1) How many spacers come in the ZZP kit. It looks like four - two 1/2" and two 3/4"? 2) Which spacers go in the 1-2 and which go in the 2-3? I might have missed this but I think the 1/2" go in the 1-2 and the 3/4" go in the 2-3?
3) How will I know which piston is the 1-2 and which is the 2-3, once the accumulator is opened?

Thanks again!

**jbamonte** · 06-06-2011

The kit has detailed instructions about which shim to use and zzp's website also has an picture. The kit comes with about 8 shims if I recall and you can use any combination although zzp recommends 1/2 inch on the 1-2 side and 3/4 on the 2-3 springs. I used 1/2 on both the 1-2 and 1/2 on 2-3 just to be safe since I was not sure how it would effect the shifts-it works beautifully but I have the coolers as well.

Once the pan is down and the accumulator is out the 1-2 and 2-3 pistons are marked on the outside of the accumulator housing so you will know which one is which.

The 4t65e continues to be perfect!

**skernan** · 06-06-2011

That's awesome news because it's been what ... over a year and a half since you first installed the kit!

Do the shims just go below the pistons - inside the lower springs?

**jhs3eva** · 06-06-2011

IIRC, one goes above and the other below.

But as jbamonte mentioned, the instructions will tell you so you don't need to figure it out before you have the kit in hand. If you do some more searching you'll also find a couple of things. One is that there is more than one "illustrated" guide out there where people have taken pics while they do it. Another is some folks who have just gone to the hardware store and made their own spacers. (Personally, I like a kit with instructions). I'd post some links but I recently lost all of my bookmarks when I had to wipe my hard drive.

**skernan** · 06-06-2011

Thanks for the reply. I looked at a bunch of pictures of guys doing the install. Most of the pictures I found were of the Transgo kit with extra color coded springs and such. I couldn't find pictures of the ZZP install and their website just shows the tranny filter. I found where I can get spacers from McMaster-Carr (from a link in this thread) and I was just going to use these spacers because thats all the ZZP kit had (and it has worked so well for jbamonte). I also plan on replacing the 1-2 spring with a 2-3 spring and install a cooler (when I get the $ saved.

Thoughts?

**skernan** · 06-08-2011

Two days ago I picked up the shims from McMaster-Carr ($9) and installed them along with changing the oil and filter. I've driven it for two days now to and from work (45 miles each way) in Atlanta heat and traffic. I am pleased to report that there hasn't been a single hard shift!! Once I saved the money for the cooler - it comes next.

**jbamonte** · 06-09-2011

Glad to hear that another lucky person has been saved by this simple fix for small dollars compared to the ripoffs at transmission shops-you don't need to replace the solenoids or worse rebuild the tranny if the hard shift is your only issue. Get the biggest cooler (s) that you can fit in the grille and you will be golden-don't cool the tranny fluid with the radiator at all.

Also, be aware that the "experts" on this forum are exactly NOT. Many are young with limited experience but give advice like they know everything-not!

**Cdazzle90** · 06-09-2011

so let me get this straight this shift kit will fix my whining and hard shifting that its been doing?? and i was reading it, on zz performance it says it not reccomened to run with 20s on your car do you think that really matters?