Thread: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide

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  1. #1 The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    A sticky may be in order for all of this extreamly time consuming work i did...lol







    Tuning Tips:

    - VE will change in colder winter months, its a good idea to optimize it for the colder air, so do it again. Make the trims as "perfect" as you can.

    - Check your LTFT/STFTs after doing the VE, you will likely need to do a complete MAF tune afterwards as well. Make sure the trims always lock in at zero anytime you are in PE.

    - Keep out of PE as long as possible! Reset your PE ENABLE TPS % back to stock or as close to stock as KR permits. Higher number means less change of going into a mode that will increase fuel usage.

    - Use the stock 195 degree thermostat. Not only will it aid in making the car heater significantly warmer, the car will give you better mileage with a hotter T-stat than with a 180, more so if temps drop under the 20F or -10C ballpark. While we are on the topic, never ever use a 160 any time of the year, unless you live somewhere that the average winter temps during the winter are over 85F and the summer months are much hotter. No matter what T-stat you use, make sure the PT has the correct temperature ranges for the T-stat that is installed in your car.

    - Make sure your IFR is the correct one for your car. This does 2 things. First is that your DIC indicated mileage indicated will be pretty accurate, and second is that it will be better able to meter the fuel out more accurately. Stock injectors = stock IFR.

    - Run the biggest pulley you can. I run a 3.4 in the winter, but if I still had my original 3.8, that's what would be on the car.

    - The boost valve mod is reversed. Meaning that most lower the boost valve so that boost comes on sooner. Mine is raised as far up as I can make it. This not only reduces the chances of part throttle KR but makes it a little more difficult to get into the boost at lower throttle settings, hence increasing mileage.

    - Run the narrowest snow tires and lightest rims you can for mileage reasons and the fact that narrower tires run through deeper snow better than wide ones.

    - Make sure all 4 tires are at 35PSI. An under inflated tire not only runs hotter, it increases drag significantly.

    - Reset your tranny settings to stock (if you have performance shift, just reset the NORMAL mode). The stock factory settings are already designed with economy in mind and are quite good. I would not play with the TCC to lock up any earlier nor get the car to shift into 4th sooner. Its not always the best to be lugging the engine at low RPMs. In fact, what I still suggest is that 4th gear low RPMs still disengage the TCC a little sooner than factory because I found that I can get up the steep hills at lower TP% levels then of the TCC was locked, car is in 4th and the engine is lugging. Experimentation on your end will decide what is best for your car. Another related hint is to decrease shift speed. Slow, smooth shifts mean slipping the clutches longer and that is keep you from applying the power sooner. Perhaps decrease them so that they are quicker than stock but NOT harsh.

    - Limit boost to as low as possible by disconnecting the boost solenoid. This limits you to 2-3 PSI of boost. Watch your O2s, they may rise a lot and you may have to increase the Base PE A/F (lean it out). While you are playing with the Base PE A/F, you may need to lean it out a little more due to the cooler air and less boost, so feel free to lower your summertime optimum O2 numbers by at least 10-20 (KR will be your deciding factor as to how much you can lean things out).

    - You may wish to lean out the fueling only slightly and increase timing. The O2 vs timing is a juggling act... be careful to not go to the extremes with either parameter, you do not want to chunk pistons!

    - Timing: You can likely get it 2-3 degrees higher during cruise during the cooler winter months than in the summer heat. In low RPM and low load situations you should be able to touch 40-43 degrees of timing. If you can maintain 39-47 degrees of timing while at a steady 60MPH cruise, consider that excellent. The stock timing for my 99 was between 25-28 at 70 MPH. I realized quickly that I could easily run 35-45 degrees without KR. That's a HUGE increase. I found that the 05GTP timing tables are a good starting point for my car in the winter months running on 87 octane. The only thing is that I reduce WOT timing from 21.5 to between 17-18 degrees as a safety factor because I use 87 octane. I then tweak areas between 1600-3500 RPM for slightly additional timing without inducing KR. Makes the job that much easier. I avoid the low RPM areas underneath 1600 for the simple reason that the stock 05GTP tables are already much more aggressive than my '99 tables and I do not wish to introduce the chance of low RPM/high load KR. You can make it even more aggressive on the low/no throttle or decel settings of 50 degrees timing. This is about the maximum permitted by the PCM.

    - Insulated air intake. The colder the air coming in, the better. This goes for the summer months too!

    - Setting your AE tables back to stock or as close to stock as possible is great. Nowhere will we use greater fuel than at acceleration and during the winter months, we should be able to do more with less. Get those tables back to as close to stock as your car permits.

    - PE A/F vs TPS table: For me, I used to have massive flash KR using a 1999 bin, but this table in stock form, contributed to good mileage. A fair compromise would be to leave it at the stock settings between 0-25% TP and then drop it drastically to 2002 bin values at TP % values of 30% and higher (this is still theory as I have not tested this yet).

    - Remove things from the car that unnecessarily add weight (do you really need those 200lb subs in there during the winter?)

    - Try a lower grade of octane (when possible, not everyone has cold winters and can get away with this one). I run 87 in the winter and summer safely enough.

    - Very cold days making your car take longer to warm up? Use a block heater. Add a 5 dollar timer and a nice 30-45 minutes of the block heater turned on will make your car's warm-up time drop by 50-100% depending how cold it really is.

    - Driving technique is paramount and can likely make the biggest difference in your quest for good fuel economy. You have suddenly just started driving almost like a little old lady. By this I mean:

    - No burnouts, no races, heck no hard acceleration (nothing over 25-35% TP). This one has to be the hardest to accomplish for us performance enthusiasts.

    - No hard braking.

    - Any throttle movement is slow and steady, you learn to compensate by looking farther ahead. This is a proper/safer way to drive anyways. If you want to take it to an extreme, imagine a raw egg between your foot and the gas pedal (lol).

    - Hill coming up? Increase speed a few MPH now instead of fighting to maintain speed going up the hill. Going down that hill, do not go over your speed unless there is another hill right after that. If there is no other hill, do not let the car accelerate over your cruising speed by more than 2-3MPH and slowly regain your cruising speed.

    - Your cruise control will never give you economy as good as your right foot can for the simple reason that it cannot look down the road and predict in advance and plan for changing conditions and road elevation changes.

    - Speeding will cost you big MPG losses fast. Approximate an easy loss of 5-7 MPG drop between 60MPH and 75MPH. In a rush? Leave earlier and don't speed. A 15MPH difference over the average 30 mile commute saves you a mere 7.5 minutes but costs you 5MPG or more! Leaving 15 minutes earlier gives you the theoretical equivalent (in terms of arrival times) of you having traveled over 90MPH with a ZERO loss in fuel economy!!
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  2. #2 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    I live here. SyntheticShield's Avatar
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    Geeesh, I had no idea cut-n-paste was so labor intensive





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  3. #3 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    GrandPrix Junkie FastKatt's Avatar
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    I wasn't going to say it...
    But, I'm sure I read this in JerryH's Tuner's Guide...
    No trees were destroyed for this message.
    However, a great number of pixels were extremely inconvenienced.
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  4. #4 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastKatt View Post
    I wasn't going to say it...
    But, I'm sure I read this in JerryH's Tuner's Guide...


    ding ding ding ...didnt realize it was in the notebook but i ran across it in the v6 engine section on hpt....figured someone could benefit from it lol
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  5. #5 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyntheticShield View Post
    Geeesh, I had no idea cut-n-paste was so labor intensive





    ....
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  6. #6 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    Bastard Reptile's Avatar
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    busted!
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  7. #7 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    dang and i just realized that the tuner note book was already stickied....shows i was paying no attention what so ever lol...
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  8. #8 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptile View Post
    busted!
    Brian what the hell are you doing up this late....go to sleep
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  9. #9 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    A sticky may be in order for all of this extreamly time consuming work i did...


    Busted indeed... ROYALLY!

    If you want to take credit for some good work, DO THE WORK, don't try to take credit for someone else's labour. Thats about the fastest way to lose complete credibility in the community (I don't think I will be participating or helping you out in any more threads on "other forums" anymore ).

    Not nice at all.

    BTW, yes, this indeed was me who wrote this article. Matter of fact, I am the one who pulled together the Tuning Guide several years ago exclusidely for the DHP users. Last year I released it to the public and a gentleman was nice enough to ask to wiki it, to which I gave my consent. If one goes to the wiki, the credits are still there. There is also a ton more info on how to properly tune on top of that.

    Matter of fact, since this version was made specifically for the DHP PT users, I will be making another one sometime this summer/fall for the HPTuner boys. This new one will be more extensive and include more info than ever before... ("complete fuel ecomony tuning guide"... uhmmm, okaay... wait till you see my revised and expanded version!)

    Enjoy the info, gentlemen.
    Last edited by JerryH; 06-05-2008 at 06:55 AM.
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  10. #10 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    Ummm...wow I really don't know what to say. I surely wasent trying to take credit for your work. I think EVERYONE knows who did this. All I was trying to do was give the community a good peice of info that i did not realize they already had. I had been asked a lot of questions about fuel economy tuning by other members on here...and that made me want to give them more info that i couldnt give them with my own knowledge!!!

    If I was trying to take credit for your work why would i name it the same thing you did???-KIND OF A DEAD GIVAWAY DONT YA THINK???

    Note my sarcasm when i said ''A sticky may be in order for all of this extreamly time consuming work i did...lol'' < Why would i put ''lol''???

    I am very dissapointed in anyone that is on gpf that would even BEGIN to think that i would take someone elses credit for somthing that they did.


    I am on gpf for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only- To expand my knowledge and to help others expand there own knowledge. WETHER IT BE FROM SOMETHING I LEARNED OWN MY OWN OR FROM SOMEBODY ELSE.

    I mean come on we all learn from someone else in some way,shape or form.

    I was replying to a post here in the tuning section and responded with something that i had learned from reptile (brian) about timing tables. I learned this from REPTILE. AND HELPED THE OTHER MEMBER WITH THE INFO THAT I OBTAINED FROM HIM.


    HE SAW THIS---BUT YOU DIDNT SEE HIM JUMPIN DOWN MY THROAT ACCUSING ME OF TAKING CREDIT FOR SOMEONE ELSES WORK NOW DO YOU?
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  11. #11 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    GTP Level Member JoshMcMadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
    Matter of fact, since this version was made specifically for the DHP PT users, I will be making another one sometime this summer/fall for the HPTuner boys. This new one will be more extensive and include more info than ever before... ("complete fuel ecomony tuning guide"... uhmmm, okaay... wait till you see my revised and expanded version!)
    Really? You think it will actually be done in the next handful of months? That is truly awesome, and please keep us updated! Lord knows I could use it.
    2000 NavyBlueMetallic GTP Coupe
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  12. #12 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    GrandPrix Junkie FastKatt's Avatar
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    I think the biggest problem is that you can't hear or see body language when you post something online
    I'm glad this wasn't what it looked like, but now more than ever I'm sure you know how it could be seen
    Let us chalk this up as a lesson learned, and in the future even with the telling "lol" added to a sarcastic post, let's make a point to give credit where credit is due?
    No trees were destroyed for this message.
    However, a great number of pixels were extremely inconvenienced.
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  13. #13 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    I think that is a very big reason people have a lot of ...lets say dissagreements online....


    Im sorry to jerryh if i offended him in anyway by what i said above or by what i did.I value your work and help on hpt and you of all people should know that (one reason being how much i tell you thanks for your time and effort in helping me.



    http://www.grandprixforums.net/f37/u...html#post50557
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  14. #14 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    I was replying to a post here in the tuning section and responded with something that i had learned from reptile (brian) about timing tables. I learned this from REPTILE. AND HELPED THE OTHER MEMBER WITH THE INFO THAT I OBTAINED FROM HIM.


    HE SAW THIS---BUT YOU DIDNT SEE HIM JUMPIN DOWN MY THROAT ACCUSING ME OF TAKING CREDIT FOR SOMEONE ELSES WORK NOW DO YOU?
    If I told you that I received at least 20 emails from other people telling me about your thread, what would you think of that? Seems to me I was not the only one who had the same thoughts. Heck, I would even know about this club if it wasn't for all these people!

    So... at least 20 or more other people saw the same things that I did... someone wanting to take credit for words not his. Of course I would be annoyed as hell, wouldn't you? Whether you share the info or not is not the issue. Falsely saying it is your work is not the cool part.

    Now if you say you weren't, I suppose myself and many other people were wrong about you. I'll stay neutral and not further this line of conversation.

    However, I will challenge anyone that wants to claim credit for the work of myself and any of the other fine tuners who DID participate to make this available to you all. Our combined thousands of hours of tuning, testing, thousands of dollars of fuel and constant risk of being captured and fined for speeding over the last 3-4 years all for the purpose of sharing this info is not not anything to take lightly.

    About the learning from someone else, I have a comment. We all learn something from someone else, but I did not see anyone ANYWHERE take this info, take it to the next level and then assemble this into one cohesive source of tuning info for the masses. What someone taught me, I used and tested and then took to the next level. I tested and for almost 2 years spent on average $200 in fuel PER WEEKEND to make sure over and over it did just like I wrote it.

    I am sure that if you had as much invested in this as I did, that you would feel the same.

    I've been mostly out of the tuning game for the last 6-8 months because of work and what not, but I am not gone, and I have at least one more huge project to delver to this community (the project we speak of here) before I say good-bye, and no one is paying my time or fuel (thats near $1.50/litre here in Quebec...or around $6.75US/gallon). I sure as heck am not doing it for the fame (I don't go around saying look at me, I am the one who wrote this... my name is not even at the top of the credits in my own works!). The 3800 community is slowly dying as it is a car that is no longer being produced... so why did I do it? Because I wanted to give back something to the community. Because I like doing it.

    There is more to come... and as spare moments in time present themselves, I will be adding to this project and I *will* make it freely available to all.

    Of course I cannot promise a timeline, but let's say that I have a project that I am on the verge of deciding to start and the HPT tuning info site will be a huge part of it.
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  15. #15 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
    Now if you say you weren't, I suppose myself and many other people were wrong about you.
    You and a lot of other people were/are



    Quote Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
    I'll stay neutral and not further this line of conversation.

    Please do.



    WOW!...all of this from a sarcastic statement that I made and the intentions on possibly trying to help someone


    I'm so sorry....won't happen again
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  16. #16 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    GTX Level Member Freebeer187's Avatar
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    - Try a lower grade of octane (when possible, not everyone has cold winters and can get away with this one). I run 87 in the winter and summer safely enough.


    Is this true?!?!!

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  17. #17 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    Bastard Reptile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebeer187 View Post
    - Try a lower grade of octane (when possible, not everyone has cold winters and can get away with this one). I run 87 in the winter and summer safely enough.


    Is this true?!?!!
    Jerry has an Intercooler on his car. It is true that you can get better HP numbers from lower octane ONLY if you are safe to run it.

    Meaning that if your car is tuned for 87 octane whether it's a honda or your GT, you aren't going to get any gains at all going to 93.
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  18. #18 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    GT Level Member BackInBlack's Avatar
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    I absolutely LOVE how the hardcore "hyper-milers" (not this article) will SWEAR up and down that the cruise control is the best thing since sliced and buttered bread. Morons...
    The GPs are long gone...
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  19. #19 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackInBlack View Post
    I absolutely LOVE how the hardcore "hyper-milers" (not this article) will SWEAR up and down that the cruise control is the best thing since sliced and buttered bread. Morons...
    lol yeah i can tell how the cruise control would give you worse gas miliage just by paying attention on how it operates at times.But then again it's not ment for fuel milage.
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  20. #20 Re: The Compleate Fuel Economy Tuning Guide 
    Bastard Reptile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackInBlack View Post
    I absolutely LOVE how the hardcore "hyper-milers" (not this article) will SWEAR up and down that the cruise control is the best thing since sliced and buttered bread. Morons...
    Agreed. They obviouslly haven't had cruise on going through southern Missouri or in Arkansas....hills + cruise is a joke.
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