Thread: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast???

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  1. #1 Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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    I am starting to feel like I have bought a lemon.... Not long after I bought my 2004 GTP Comp G....one owner....always dealer serviced....100K miles, I had a catastrophic failure while my wife was driving (first time she drove it.....also the last time she drove it)....I believed it to be a LIM gasket failure so I tore down the motor to the required level and replaced everything that could be replaced....including the "elbows".....car ran great for about 6K miles....then the gremlins associated with the ABS/Wheel Sensors/Computer started up....still sorting that one out. A couple of weeks ago while getting on the interstate....full tilt boogie....white smoke in my rearview mirror....tow home....the new plastic (why plastic??) elbow has busted....coolant pouring from that....easy enough to replace since I have been here before. I never throw away removed....assumed to be good parts from a car so I dig in my GTP bin and locate the original elbow that I had removed and replaced from my LIM gasket project.....and what do you know....it is cracked.....don't know how I missed that the first time but that totally explained the original failure while my wife was driving. So, it's been a couple of weeks of event free driving (except for the ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, Tire Pressure, Variable Assist Steering gremlins) until Thursday.....as I am accelerating.....loud knocking from the engine bay......NOT GOOD! I come off the gas and the loud knocking goes away.......on the gas....there it is. So, I baby her home.....slow acceleration to prevent the knocking. It sounds like a broken valve spring but this morning, I tried to isolate exactly where it is coming from and I can't.......then I remembered reading something about the "anti-knock sensor" or something like that for SC motors....is it possible that this terrible knocking is actually just the sysmptom of a bad sensor?? I am really at a loss of how to proceed from here......this is my daily driver and I am starting to feel like I made a poor selection.
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  2. #2 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Moderator dsmuts's Avatar
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    Posting a video will help out a lot. The knock sensors just retard the timing so you don't blow your motor they don't make any noise.
    98 GTP modded 1.9's, sd headers, 3.4", zzp 1.0 230K miles scrapped.
    04 Comp G zzp stb's, UMI ta's, Speedbuilt sways, bully flo heads, XP, zzp headers, fsic, thrasher shift kit, 60#, 2.6" corsa 2.5", Inferno hood
    01 gt z7 turbo tep trans zzp motor
    08 g8 gt cam exhaust 11.87@118
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  3. #3 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    GT Level Member Beelzeboul's Avatar
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    should have bought the aluminum elbows there is a thread with the part number for them they are made by dorman.
    the white smoke would usually signify a coolant leak into your engine and it burning off but if your coolant light is not coming on it is most likely a small leak
    the knocking is the worst sound you can get but hopefully its nothing too bad if you wanna start at the worst and work backwards I'd say have a compression test done
    this will let you know if your pistons have chipped.

    also is there a chance you may have installed you LIM improperly and it is leaking?

    Vid will help diagnose if you can get the sound as clear as possible
    I'm sorry officer I didnt know I couldn't do that
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  4. #4 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    the new metal elbows just came out weeks ago.

    post a vid, that will help out a ton.

    you could have any number of things wrong that would make a knocking sound, but they all differ from bad part to part.


    some easy to fix, others = a dead engine.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  5. #5 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    GTP Level Member QwikGT's Avatar
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    The help elbows either aluminum or plastic are still not the right ones to use. They aren't as fat as the gm ones and will not fit in the holes.spend the $20 at the dealer and get the correct elbows. Secondly if you're burning coolant out of the exhaust it has made its way into the engine and most likely wiped out a bearing. Pull the oil dipstick and see if the oil looks like yoo-hoo, if it does you're gonna need a short block.
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  6. #6 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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    Okay....sorry for such a long post to start the thread.....I must have been "venting"... LIM gasket fix worked out perfectly (thanks to the video) and with the last elbow replacement I no longer am burning coolant. Everything has been running smoothly since the last elbow replacement.....about 500 miles ago......but the knocking just showed up out of the blue....I will do a video and post it in a little bit. Thanks everyone.
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  7. #7 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    GTP Level Member QwikGT's Avatar
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    Pull the dipstick. It only takes a little bit of coolant to wipe out a bearing
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  8. #8 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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  9. #9 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    that kinda sounds fatal...if you post another vid but do a quick rev of the engine and let drop back to idle, if you hear the knock like bouncing in the rpm drop after the rev, id say spun bearing.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  10. #10 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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    Dipstick is clean.....getting ready to take belts off to check if it's the SC.
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  11. #11 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member destroyer85golf's Avatar
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    im kind of new on here but is it possible that it could be a cracked flywheel? Ive read about it on here but i have never seen it in person. Im sure someone else with more knowledge than myself will get on and help you ! good luck.
    2000 GTP daytona 500
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  12. #12 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    flex knocks at idle and goes away with rpm, usually..

    im thinking its, a rod bearing top of the list, then maybe a broken spring in the head.

    thats why a rev vid is needed.

    also a oil pressure test will tell you a lot. you can rent one if you dont have one. you remove the oil pressure sensor by the oil filter, and then put the pressure gauge in its place. then start the car to see the oil pressure. if its low you got a spun bearing.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  13. #13 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member destroyer85golf's Avatar
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    not to hijack this guys thread but what would be the normal pressure readings for these engines?
    2000 GTP daytona 500
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  14. #14 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottydoggs View Post
    that kinda sounds fatal...if you post another vid but do a quick rev of the engine and let drop back to idle, if you hear the knock like bouncing in the rpm drop after the rev, id say spun bearing.
    Here is 2nd video......not good

    2004 GTP Knock Vid 2 video by stevequiett - Photobucket
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  15. #15 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    last time i tested mine it was @ 50 psi cold start,(idle) up to 60-70 if getting on it.

    warm @ idle should be no lower then 20 psi.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  16. #16 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    ROD KNOCK. you spun a bearing. time to start shopping for used block.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  17. #17 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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    Not the SC......I sure wish that it was
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  18. #18 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    SE Level Member fastmvr's Avatar
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    Thanks Scottydoggs.....I kinda knew that in my gut....hard to forget that sound from many years ago on my '72 Firebird Formula 350.....back then...it just meant getting a 400......now, I am not sure which direction I should go.....what do you recommend? If I'm going to spend the money anyway.....what would you do?
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  19. #19 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    your bottom end has let go as they say. you need a new engine.

    that knocking is your rod bouncing around on the crank. when the rpm's drop, its just clanks inside the engine at a different tone.


    you can get under the car and put your ear to the oil pan, it should be real loud under there.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  20. #20 Re: Severe Knocking .....Is My Motor Toast??? 
    I AM PEWPIN! rynoman03's Avatar
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    Cheap way is just drop in another block. Upto you and your budget. Most upgrade internals if they have the cash and the time while it's out.
    1999 GTPHP Tuned, Ported SC/TB, 42#'s, SSAC's, ZZP Modded 1.9's/LS6 Springs/Manley's, TransGo Shift Kit, Poly Uppers, KYB GR2's/Springtech's. - 231k and traded it in. - Gone
    2000 GTP: XP, P&P'd Heads, N*\Lq4 MAF, GenV, 42#'s, PRJ Rails\FPR, Racetronix, TEP w/ 3.29 Gears, 300m, 7/8" chain, SSAC's. - Collecting dust in my garage.
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