Thread: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them)

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  1. #1 Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    So... here is where I try to go into detail of the problems with three different transmissions that I feel must have somewhat similar causes. The vehicles in question are my 04 Comp G with currently 134k mi, dad's 06 GP with...I believe 199 if not 200k mi now, and mom's Bonnie with approx 160k mi.

    *One note, the Bonnie did have a used/rebuilt trans installed back in late 2016 off a Le Sabre that had 80k mi on it at the time, so the trans itself definitely is not as worn as the car and neither should be the fluid as new fluid was obviously added when the trans was installed.*

    Mom says the Bonnie usually starts shifting hard 1-2 and 2-3 when the engine gets hot (around 200 degrees really) - since we can't really gauge how hot the trans is apart from the engine that's all I can say there. There have been occasional slips, we think, when accelerating from a full stop, but usually for a split second. Slipping was honestly WAY worse with the original transmission when I had to drive it to school everyday just before we ended up replacing it

    The 06 base GP who just made 200k mi or will be very soon - that sheeit gets really hot on my dad's drive home from work. I'm talking up to 230 degrees so far. This is a drive that should be a half hour but usually is a bit more because of traffic on both highway and city, though. This one also normally starts shifting very hard when it starts getting warm - literally feels like the trans is going to crack open with one of those jolts. My dad did try some Lucas for the trans, forgot what it was called, for slippage I believe; it appeared to help immediately but within a few days symptoms came back. We did notice though that shortly after the additive it would sometimes shift hard when it wasn't even that hot (around 160 degrees) or even start shifting normally when it's hot again - which usually was when it would act up. But that was just for the week or so after adding that stuff in, it's back to the usual problem except now it gets way hotter and quicker than it should.

    Last but not least (or maybe it is the least affected one?)
    My Pumpkin's trans gets warmer than it should too. If we are driving maybe 10-15 minutes straight city or both city and highway combined, I've noticed it has gotten up to 206 highest (so far) - I can only assume it would keep climbing from there if I drove as much as my dad does. In terms of how the shifting feels, definitely nowhere near as hard as the Bonnie or the 06, but you can definitely feel the first two shifts more than you should imo. I feel like they are slightly delayed too, like the engine has to rev longer/higher before it decides to shift. I did have a couple of occasions where it slipped for a split second from a stop, but since doing a fluid and filter change I don't recall it happening again. However, after 8 quarts of the fluid being changed it still gets hotter than I like, sooner than I like. I *almost* feel like it was a waste of $60+ however much I spent on the fluid, then again the fluid was a pale yellow so it needed to be done sooner than later. I did use Dex III. Sorry, couldn't really afford to buy the newer type at the time (kind of still can't, still looking for work)

    So, what does everyone have in mind, besides I definitely should've bought Dex VI? Lol.
    I just don't want anyone to have to spend money they don't have on another whole transmission- plus I don't even think I could possibly find particularly another tapshift trans around here either if mine decides to crap out on me
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  2. #2 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Donating Users Bronco Boy's Avatar
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    These trans' run hot. Get a trans cooler and you will loose at least 20* if not more. A shift kit will prevent the P1811/hard 1-2 shift.

    Here's my highest temp so far (I have a shift kit, but no cooler), and I don't drive very far....

    Chris B
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  3. #3 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Solving problems BrandonHall10's Avatar
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    Agreed. Trans-go shift kit and inline trans cooler would be my next move.
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  4. #4 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    How do you measure trans temp, or are you referring to engine temps?
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  5. #5 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    Well on the GP's going by the DIC options there is one screen/option for trans fluid temp, right after the engine oil life option. For the Bonnie, can't really tell what the temp is on the trans, only the engine.
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  6. #6 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco Boy View Post
    These trans' run hot. Get a trans cooler and you will loose at least 20* if not more. A shift kit will prevent the P1811/hard 1-2 shift.

    Here's my highest temp so far (I have a shift kit, but no cooler), and I don't drive very far....

    By the way nice view there out your windshield.
    Yes..i like some other things besides GM's... I like a lot of things

    I forgot to add, so aren't these really high temps (at least 210+ ish) not still bad for a transmission's lifespan? Or does everyone who wants theirs to last over 150k have to eventually shell out the extra money on a separate cooling system?

    Aaalso... would a cooling system flush and maybe even trans cooling line flush/cleaning not help at all either?
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  7. #7 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Donating Users Bronco Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedfrisone View Post
    I forgot to add, so aren't these really high temps (at least 210+ ish) not still bad for a transmission's lifespan? Or does everyone who wants theirs to last over 150k have to eventually shell out the extra money on a separate cooling system?
    Some say yes, some say no. GM and some tranny experts seem fine with these temps. IMO, going over 200 is to hot. I change my fluid twice a year to make sure it is fresh and as non-burnt as possible. I hate when my tranny is hotter than the engine. Funny thing is when sitting at a light, the temps climb. Get going, engine temps drop right away, trans temps take forever to drop. I've always said that the factory cooler is crap and causes the hi trans temps.



    Aaalso... would a cooling system flush and maybe even trans cooling line flush/cleaning not help at all either?
    No, unless you have blockage somewhere.
    Chris B
    2009 CX-9
    ** SOLD ** 2002 GT
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  8. #8 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    Yeah I was stuck in a bit of traffic earlier leaving Target (it was a decent size/popular shopping plaza, lots of people leaving at the same time) and the engine was starting to get warmer than usual. But once we found freedom and Pumpkin had fresh air coming through his snoot he felt better. Sometimes I wonder if the radiator fan even works...haha.
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  9. #9 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    That's where tuning the fans to turn on at thermostat temps helps. Stock thermostat is 195F, the fan turn on temps are somewhere around 216F for low and 228F for high speeds. As you can see the engine temp is going to be up there if you are in traffic. The trans is cooled by going through a small cooler that is in the side of the radiator so... your coolant is either cooling or heating the trans fluid.

    Many 4T65's tend to run warmer than we like no matter what. Others can run nice and cool. It is possible to add trans coolers to them. If you want a factory option look up the impala police package trans cooler and lines. Otherwise most folks might add an aftermarket cooler. But we are all a bit nuts anyhow. If you are getting the bang or slam shifts as you mention that is likely accompanied by the P1811 code as mentioned earlier. This means the pressure control solenoid is being commanded to max pressure due to longer than expected shifts happening. Which makes the exact opposite occur. BANG!!! Easy way to get around it is the transgo shift kit (also mentioned by someone). It isn't the true fix to the problem, but it does keep shifts faster and therefore more firm w/o the max pressure adapt occuring. So it fixes it w/o a transmission rebuild.

    Me.. I ran a stock GM cooler because my 97 Bonnie was the same basic body as the 92-99 that had the cooler on the SSEi's. Older caddies and Park Aves also had these coolers. I mention this in case you want to go the cheaper junkyard way. Does it show I used to scavenge stock parts at the yards?
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  10. #10 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    Haha, maybe it shows, I'm not 100% sure. So we have never gotten that code for any of our cars yet they do have the hard shifts - that confuses me a bit. Would it still be the same problem with the solenoid or something else if nothing is coming up on the OBDII reader?
    I was looking at a few aftermarket coolers that are shown as basically mini radiators you install in front of the main radiator (as in closer to the grille) - is that technically how all/most of them work or are those just a lower-end style? Just wondering because the pricing seemed decent and wouldn't cost our limbs, but I'm no expert on these things either to know if they're worth it.
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  11. #11 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    That is how they work and in order to see code 1811 the car can not be turned off. Ignition off resets the code automatically.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  12. #12 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
    That is how they work and in order to see code 1811 the car can not be turned off. Ignition off resets the code automatically.
    As in I can't just go to the driveway turn one of the cars on and check it because it would have already reset from last time it was driven ? Or just that the reader can't be plugged in while the engine is off?
    I'm assuming the code wouldn't cause a CEL either?
    Thanks
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  13. #13 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    Correct.. it resets with ignition so you won't see it if you've turned the car off. And also correct, it doesn't set the light.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  14. #14 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    I see... we will have to keep that in mind then and try and plug the reader in after driving a bit/after it starts to act up. First though I think I might finally get some other work done on Pumpkin on Saturday when my dad is free... since he claims replacing Coolant elbows is too delicate of a job and my boyfriend says he prefers working on guns than cars lol. Pumpkin has really turned him off from the idea of working on engines XD
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  15. #15 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    id say the BF needs to man up, but he owns guns....lol

    elbows are cake. go watch a you tube vid and get your hands dirty. once done, tell the BF hes a wuss lmao.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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  16. #16 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    GrandPrix Junkie
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    Heck, I'd do elbows all day long. Good thing you didn't ask to have the oil pan gasket changed out, lol..
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  17. #17 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    Hahaha, I just think it's all still pretty new to him (it is to me too) since all his life his thing has been airsoft/guns. I'm the one who grew up naming all the family cars and personifying them all, so I'm probably more inclined/interested in learning about them than he is lol. I also have the habit of asking him to give me a hand with something, while not planning ahead enough/making sure we have everything we need and then we run into problems/roadblocks which makes working on these things annoying.
    Just saw a video of a trans guy (not trans as in questioning his gender) taking apart one of these and explaining the likely/common causes of P1811 ; I should show my boyfriend that video if he thinks the general things we have tried to tackle are complicated XD I kind of wanted to die inside watching that video...

    And FordMan, you're right. ALL I ever wanted to do was replace the water pump, main belt, coolant elbows, supercharger coupler and the SC oil. Is that too much to ask for? Lol. Oh and I need to find a new coolant reservoir tank hose because what Pumpkin has for one is more of a flimsy noodle than a hose. But that one can wait I guess.
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  18. #18 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    You know.. this is pretty straight forward.

    To do elbows you'll be draining the coolant. And to do them you will remove the belts, alternator and the bracket that holds it (that's what the elbows go into). This makes it a perfect time to do the water pump since you have the coolant drained and the alt is out of the way. Now the PS pump is another two 13mm bolts and it's out of the way so you can do the water pump. While the alt and bracket are out of the way, the supercharger bolts to do the coupler and oil are wide open.

    Parts to have on hand
    Water pump
    Coolant elbows
    SC coupler
    2 bottles of GM SC oil
    1 gallon undiluted coolant (anycolor or dex if your car has orange dex coolant currenntly)
    GM gasket maker part number 1052943 (this seals SC case)
    Ultra copper RTV (to seal SC nose drive back to gasket of intake manifold although not necessary)

    Tools you'll need
    8mm socket for water pump pulley bolts
    10mm socket for water pump bolts
    13mm socket for power steering/water pump bolts
    15mm socket for alt bracket bolts
    10mm socket for alt battery cable
    Pick - alt connector
    Torx bit (SC bolts are likely to fight)
    Torque wrench
    Gasket scraper
    Brake cleaner to clean gasket surface once scraped.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  19. #19 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    SE Level Member wickedfrisone's Avatar
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    I did pretty much think it wasn't as complicated and I guess the only thing I guess I don't have is GM gasket maker? I thought grey RTV from auto zone would be fine but let me know I guess if I should find the GM one instead. I'm not sure why my dad likes to make things complicated, especially when it's me trying to get things done since I have nothing better to do.... hmmm.... I wouldn't ever know what drives him to hunk that way.
    Anyways on original topic, I told my dad how to try and see if he has the P1811 code and he did try it yesterday on his way to work but of course his transmission decided not to act up and nothing showed up on the reader lol. We will have to give it another shot on his and then mom's car, and mine. I'm quite annoyed since today wasn't supposed to rain so I could get all these things done and it's been pouring since last night and it won't stop...
    2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, aka Pumpkin
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  20. #20 Re: Trans in need of some help (well 3 of them) 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
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    anobolic sealant for the snout. anaerobic sealant - Google Search is what you should use on the snout to blower case. use a thing smear and bolt it back on.

    i used high heat black rtv years ago on mine and its not failed me yet. but i later learned this is what you should be using. you can get a coupler and new oil for a lot less then a dealership these days, you wont find the oil at a parts store. dealer or ebay only.

    my local dealers sell you two 4 oz bottles at 20 a bottle. green couplers are best too. 8 oz Supercharger Coupler Oil Change Kit fits Eaton Ford Pontiac M90 M112 M122 | eBay

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
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